Posts by Bungi Bill

35

Fred Franz

by d in

jw
friends

for all those here who who saw and may have met fred franz.what would he say about global warming, facebook twitter, the death of mitcahel jackson since mitchael was a witness.what would he say about lady gaga, justin biber, usher and emeniem.how do you think he would have reacted to the events of 9/11 and bible prophecy.would he see it as true signs of the end.. so the overall question how would fred franz respond to the 21 st century with it's advanved technolgy and war on terrorism and the economic crisis that this country (the u.s) is facing.please tell us your thoughts..

Bungi Bill

If he were still alive today, and honest with himself (both conditions impossible for F.W. Franz to meet!), he would have to admit that he was wrong, wrong, wrong - and furthermore, that he #%&*ed up th elives of millions of people in the process.

However, being the deluded bloody fool that he always was, he would no doubt invent one more escape clause to "explain" it all:

- i.e. a refinement on the time lapse between Adam's creation and that of Eve.

Leolaia sum sit up best - "Who cares."

I certainly don't!

Bill.

12

What made you leave?? What were your core reasons?

by safireblu64 in

jw
friends

hi there, i am pretty new to this forum, this absolutely wonderful forum and i just wanted to know what made you all leave?

what were your positions, responsibilities and at what point did you know you had to leave?

and are there any persons here from ontario, canada?.

Bungi Bill

Like you, I am new to this discussion board.

I was involved with the JWs from a teenager (baptised in 1972), and during the last four years with them, was an MS.

Increasingly, I felt I was being obligated to defend the indefensible. Probably, one of the final straws was an Awake article in 1991, about how far a JW is permitted to go in defending themselves from physical attack. At that stage, we were living in a high crime area; I had two teenage daughters, and the statistics for rape were extremely frightening. The "counsel" in this Awake article was impractical, to the point of being utterly ridiculous.

- there is nothing like the cold light of day to wake you up to reality!

There were plenty of other things I had been prepared to overlook and parrot The Party Line:

- To name a few: Failure of Prophecy (1975 etc), the WTS downer on education (which had inflicted considerable hardship on me and my family).

However, it got to the point just how long can you keep doing that? - and for what in return?

This was not an easystep to take - like you, there was the matter of family - and to break with the JWs cost me my family.

My JW background in a nutshell!

Bill.

2

Calling Kiwi Shepards your assistance is needed.

by fadinfast in

it is well known "kiwi shepard's" are some of the best at handling/sorting/counting [we wont mention breeding] sheep and the gb could do with your help.

you see they are loosing sheep, they have wolfs in sheep clothing, they have sheep in wolfs clothing, disobedient sheep, rebellious sheep, questioning sheep, uncooperative sheep, black sheep, grey sheep, swinging sheep, thinking of going sheep, halfway gone sheep, f.a.d.e.ing sheep, goooooooooone sheep!

as you can see the problem requires much expertise, so name your own price, plenty of money in the kitty!.

Bungi Bill

One of the Australian poet A.B. ("Banjo") Paterson's poems is about the legendary drover, "Clancy of the Overflow."

In this poem's closing stanza, reference is made to Clancy being recalled for active duty on Judgement Day, when the Good Lord may need some assistance with bringing in his sheep.

It would seem that the GB are needing to do this a bit earlier:

- i.e. locate Clancy of the Overflow (wherever he is now), and give him the contract to locate, round up, and then yard their lost flocks for them!

"Make a call for Clancy, Clancy of the Overflow."

Bill.

52

JW self-defense...WT says we are too slow to use a gun!!!.......

by oompa in

you gotta read this to beleive it!.....lately my mind is teaching s we had that "went beyond what is written" and this subject on self defence has cracked me up!!

!.....you if gotta see this to believe it!....not just guns....but almost everthing is bashed...they did leave out the option of us carrying a sword o.j.

style....or a spear.....this will make my list....(and you can have no privileges if you carry a gun at work...cop or security guard).......... *** g91 7/8 p. 12 self-defensehow far can a christian go?

Bungi Bill

When that Awake article came out in 1991, I was living in a high-crime area, and my children were being bullied at school. The impracticality of this "guidance" was one of the things that set me on the course to part company with the Truth Lie.

As to using that ridiculous excuse "the attacker is likely to be quicker on the draw than the victim" - that situation can easily be turned around with a little training, and regular practice on the shooting range.

I agree with others here that diplomacy and common sense can play a role. However, these on their own cannot always guarantee a favourable outcome.

Niether can showing your attacker a clean pair of heels always work!

- the last time somebody tried to physically attack me, there was nowhere to run to; he being between me and the room's only door.

This nutcase meant business, too, having armed himself with a three pound hammer from out of my own tool box!

Fortunately, a security officer was present, and managed to get my attacker to release the weapon. If he had been unsuccessful, then I would have used my knowledge and prior training in judo / karate disarm the attacker. (Judo is a particularly useful thing to know when defending yourself against attack from a "blunt instrument").

One thing is for sure, had I followed the WTS "advice" that day (early December 2006), I would not be here now talking about it!

Bill.

23

Rutherford's Doctrines are Dead and so are the Reasons for JWs House-to-House Ministry

by AndersonsInfo in

terry, a very astute poster on jwn recently started the following thread of interest:.

when i read the posts on terrys thread, i was reminded that in my last two articles, which can be read on freeminds and were posted recently on jwn by randy watters, i discussed the changes made to two major old watch tower doctrines that have definitely affected todays door to door ministry of jehovahs witnesses: .

1) the teaching, vindicate jehovah's name," officially changed in 1993, after seven decades of use, to "sanctify jehovah's name" (which is more in line with the lord's prayer, "let your name be sanctified").

Bungi Bill

Its only function now is to serve as a stick with which to beat the rank and file with:

- also, to help keep them exhausted, and less likely to be able to think for themselves.

(Does it remind anybody else about Christ's comments - "skinned and thrown about like sheep without a shepherd.")

Bill.

12

Surely the most damning statement ever published by the WTS

by S EIGHT in

awake!, october 8, 1968 page 23, said:.

.... there have been those in times past who predicted an "end to the world," even announcing a specific date.... yet, nothing happened.

the "end" did not come.

Bungi Bill

I've said it before, and I say it again, their own literature condemns them!

Bill

37

How many of you have had these in your congregation?

by bottleofwater in

brother smart: the serious brother who thinks that he is an intellectual and believes he is "smart"sister armageddon: the sister who says "armageddon!!!

" after any little thing in the newschase: the little boy who is always running around and crawling under the seats no matter what the parents sayjohnny: the little boy who keeps on leaving his snot on the sides of the bathroom stallbrother squeaky: the one in charge of cleaning who tells everyone what to do, but just stands there and conversessister coquette: the congregation slut... or as close to a slut as she can get... flirting with every brother... oh yeah and she was raised in the "truth"brother borrow: the brother who owes everyone money... and still asks to borrow from othersgreg: the boy or girl whose parents are so restrictive that the kid can't watch anything higher than g-rated moviesstormy: the teenage boy or girl who you could bet does stuff behind the scenes, so to speaki'm just speaking from past memories.

not in all of this anymore.

Bungi Bill

Sister Gossip:

- there was a surfeit of her in every congregation that I was ever with. In fact my first introduction to such persons when I started attending meetings.

Sister Coquette:

Yes, we had one of those!

She was tamed, though - married a close friend of mine, and they are still together 36 years later.

Brother Smart:

I was just thinking of him only the other day:

- he was a guy who had been appointed an elder while still extremely young. Because HE was an elder and the rest of us weren't, he took it for granted that that fact meant he automatically knew more about everything than we did. Furthermore, he didn't hesitate to let everyone know this!

(In one congregation I was with, though, one of the elders was extremely intelligent - with an IQ level shared by only 5% of the population. This person was also extremely humble, and certainly did not go about advertising his intelligence).

Brother or Sister Daft,

Our congregation's "territory" included a large psychiatric hospital, and as a result (sadly), we had more than our share of these.

Bill.

14

DAY of DOOM: Armageddon Comes for the WatchTower--- April 5, 2011

by cameo-d in

my speculation comes from something that conspiracy theorists know as an illuminati ritual called "revelation of method".

it is when symbols and indications are given ahead of time, (revealed in movies, television shows, etc.

) of something that is planned.

Bungi Bill

The coincidence of dates being significant?

This is an old one - and one that has consistently been shown to mean SFA (which stands for "Sweet Fanny Adams").

C.T. Russell no doubt read much into how the so-called "Chronological Marks" of the Great Pyramid listed such dates as 1874 and 1914:

- which matched those arrived at, (and later discarded) by N.H. Barbour ; and then adopted (and retained) by Charles Russell.

However, the "proof of the pudding" as they say, is in the eating - and nothing Russell predicted happened (whether his dates coincided or not).

You had better write an escape clause into this one, like F.W. Franz did with 1975 (i.e. the time lapse before Eve was created). Because - you are going to need one!

Bill (Who has seen it all before).

45

WT Society's Sly Guilt & Fear Tactics on Young People in Nov.15th WT

by flipper in

jw
friends

as many on this board are aware- the wt society is losing younger members in big numbers.

statistics show that 2 out of 3 jw's raised in the cult leave between the age of 18 to 35. so like they always do- if the wt society sees a " need " or " problem " arising they address it in wt study articles.

thus notice how manipulative the wt society uses fear, guilt, and put down type comments to intimidate young jehovah's witnesses in this wt study article in nov. 15th issue.. under the titled article " young ones - what will you do with your life ?

Bungi Bill

With what the JW religion does to children and adolescents, I am surprised they even manage to hang onto one third of those raised in the cult:

- the fact is that the JW religion is NOT family friendly.

- in practice (if not actually in word), children are dealt with like they are an encumbrance;and are expected to conform with a schedule that fully tests an adult.

In our family, my father resisted strong pressure from his JW mother to raise us children "In the Truth"; and for this, I can't thank him enough:

- I am thankful that as a result, I had a much more interesting childhood than that experienced by those unfortunates who were reared in the cult. What is so wonderful, anyway, about a life consisting of little more than attending boring, mind-numbing meetings; preparing for those same meetings (i.e. a rehash of a rehash); hawking WT literature around people's doors; and, several times a year, sitting through days of even more mind-numbing assembly programs? It is not exactly an appealing lifestyle for an adult - it must be close to torture for a small child. (My youngest certainly made that clear, when, at two years old, he was heartbroken when told that we still had two hours of the afternoon program yet to endure at the District Convention!)

However, I did get myself ensnared with the JWs during my teenage years, and (predictably!), this played merry hell with my education. The fanatics that I was involved with went one step further than stopping me from going to college (though they did that, too, of course). They even got me to abandon my apprenticeship, that I had started just 12 months beforehand. I was able to pick that up again some seven years later, although the effects that had on my family life were close to devastating - and in no small way contributed to my marriage eventually failing.

The miracle is that 100% of those raised In The Truth In The Cult don't throw it away as soon as they can.

(I have trouble finding enough unpleasant adjectives to accurately describe the experience!)

Bill.

36

House to House and Door to Door proves to be a shame diversion

by Terry in

english standard version(2001).

woe to you, scribes and pharisees, hypocrites!

for you travel across sea and land to make a single proselyte, and when he becomes a proselyte, you make him twice as much a child of hell as yourselves.. .

Bungi Bill

The comparison between WTS's methods of indoctrination, and those of the more extreme political ideologies (such as communism) , is rather frightening.

It should be obvious to anybody that if you were really all about issuing a mass warning of an approaching catastrophe, you would use the

mass media. That is what the authorities do around here whenever there is a bush-fire alert:

i.e.

- radio announcements, televised public warnings, internet sites that are accessible to the public.

- and if the fires do approach in close to residential areas, the final and immediate evacuation warnings are sounded from the P.A. systems on the emergency service vehicles.

The one thing you would never see is a mob of volunteers running from house to house with printed warnings!

That the WTS does not use such means to warn of this business of "Armegeddon", which has always been "very close" (apparently), indicates to me at least that they themselves don't believe it.

Primarily, their door to door activity serves as a stick with which to beat the rank and file. I even recall an elder once saying as much:

- only he phrased it as "the only measure that we have of a persons spirituality."

It is also a way of keeping the rank and file busy, distracted and - when combined with the inhuman schedule of meetings - worn out.

Again, this was part of communism's indoctrination process - work the people all day, then require them to attend mind numbing "political meetings" that ran well into the night.

If Schnell, in his "For Thirty Years a Watchtower Slave" is to be believed, J F Rutherford knew his that prediction about the end coming in 1925 was nonsense. It did not, however, overly concern him that the R & F took it seriously;

- his solution (thought out in advance), was to distract the R & F by keeping them "busy with distributing the literature."

(Schnell was privy to this, while acting as Rutherford's interpreter during a meeting with the WTS's director for Germany).

thetrue one just summed it up beautifully "a coercive sham presented and holographed as an endeavor to save human life."

Bill.